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NOTE: This week’s update is a transcription of a live interview done as part of the Tilly’s Trans Tuesdays podcast. Special thanks to Kate Rascali for the transcription!
Tilly Bridges: Welcome to Tilly’s Trans Tuesdays! This week, we’ve got an interview with Cicada Queen V about her video game, When Summer is Over, an indie free-to-play game that’s so, so trans, right down to its core.
Tilly: Hi, I’m Tilly Bridges, your host, and I’m joined by my writing partner, my best friend, my wife, our token cis representation, the star that makes my summers last forever, Susan Bridges.
Susan Bridges: Hello!
Tilly: Our guest this week, you may have guessed from the episode intro, is Cicada Queen V, the developer of Cold Call and When Summer is Over. Originally from Florida, now living in New England, she turns her experiences of growing up in an increasingly hostile state and living situation into art to make others who went through similar experiences feel less alone. Welcome, V!
V: Hello, thanks for having me! I really, I really like that. Endless Summer, huh? That’s pretty cool.
Tilly: Okay, so we generally like to start this show off with a few questions so our listeners can get to know our guests. I wanted to sort of get started by asking how you got into making video games.
V: I’ve always liked playing video games. There was a point in my, I would say probably, later teen years, which I guess you could call my childhood still, that I kind of realized that video games could be art, and not just entertainment.
Tilly: Right.
V: And that got me even more interested, and for the longest time, I always thought I wanted to make them, but I just never…(you know, undiagnosed ADHD and all these problems) I could never focus to get far enough into. And then enough stuff happened in my life, I just had all this, almost want to say fuel, I guess. And finally this dam burst. I’ve tried writing, I’ve tried art, I’ve tried drawing, I’ve tried making music, and, like, nothing ever felt quite enough. So I thought maybe combining all of it together, try to do this thing that I’ve always wanted to do. I just found myself in the perfect situation this year, and I just decided, let’s do it, let’s finally try it. So I’ve been doing it, and it’s reached more people than I expected.
Tilly: Yeah, it’s really cool when you find the medium that fits your creativity the best, and you’re like, hey, this is home, this is the best thing that I can express myself through, yeah.
V: Definitely, yeah.
Tilly: Okay, well, before we get into talking about the game specifically, I wanted to ask, for you, what has been the best thing about transitioning?
V: That feels like a loaded question. No, it’s a good question. I actually really like that, because I think it helps to slow down and try to think about the good things sometimes, because sometimes it feels like there’s so many harsh and bad things.
Tilly: For sure.
V: It’s been hard, I’m not sure. I feel like my transition has been a little bit different than a lot of other people I’ve interacted with, but to me, just getting to get closer to who I really am, to my true self, you know? Even though I look in the mirror and I’m still a little uncomfortable sometimes.
Tilly: Sure.
V: I don’t have these episodes where I disassociate anymore, I don’t have these episodes where I look in the mirror and I don’t recognize the person looking back at me. I feel more like me. And to me, whatever that shape is, whatever form you take. It’s always nice to be closer to that, and to me, that’s the nicest thing about transitioning.
Tilly: Yeah, and you know, one of the things that I’ve learned, especially from doing this show and from all the trans people I know, is that every transition is unique, and it’s different for all of us.
V: Absolutely. True, very true.
Tilly: Yeah, yeah, but that moment when you don’t see a stranger in the mirror anymore, even if it’s not fully you. You can feel it getting better, it’s so huge.
V: Yeah, definitely.
Tilly: Well, then let me ask, what do you think has been the most surprising part of your transition? Is there something that you totally didn’t expect?
V: Hmm… Surprising. I mean, there were a lot of things I didn’t expect. The hormones, when I started them, hit me pretty fast, and within 6 months, I was already kind of, like, very different. So I didn’t really have the option of trying to go undercover and stuff. So, I kinda had to come out a lot. And some of the things that surprised me were some of the reactions from some people that were… they either just didn’t care, which was nice, like nothing changed…
Tilly: Right.
V: But there were some people I didn’t expect to react the way they did. And, you know, people who would talk about things like “‘”being yourself” and, you know, “going against the grain” and all this stuff, and then when that happens, they’re like, “oh, you’re shoving yourself in a box for others.” Not the nicest thing to be surprised by, but.
Tilly: Yeah.
V: I suppose the way people have reacted, but to leave that on a positive note, my mother, things were a little bit rough at first, but she has since come into her own, and she’s been very supportive of all of it.
Tilly: Oh, that’s amazing, I’m so glad.
V: I’m grateful for that, yeah.
Tilly: Yeah, it’s weird, there’s this thing in our society, where our whole life, we’re bombarded with messages of, “be yourself,” and “break out of the box,” and “do things your own way,” and then when you’re like, okay, I’m trans, that’s what I’m gonna do. And they’re all like, “no, not like that.”
V: “No, you have to do it the way we tell you!”
Tilly: Exactly. “Break out of the box in the way that’s still inside the box that makes us comfortable.”
V: Don’t destroy the box!
Susan: There’s a whole series of boxes, and you have to fit into one of them, and when you don’t…
Tilly: Yeah, yeah, it’s terrible. All right, well, let’s get into talking about your game, When Summer is Over. You sent me a link to this game, and I played through it, and it hit me so hard that I had to have you on to talk about it. So, I guess to start off, do you want to tell folks a little bit about what the game is and why you made it?
V: Yeah, It’s funny, because everyone I’ve shared it with has had that same reaction, like, “this hit way harder than I expected.”
Tilly: Yeah!
V: And I made a joke with my friends about, like, I finally found my niche in art and games. I make the kind of games that people play, and then it makes them want to ask me, “are you okay?” But to start with the reason I made it… the game itself, the story, revolves around a trans woman’s last day in the only home she’s ever known, particularly in Florida. I grew up in Florida. I was born and raised there. There were a few years of my childhood I spent growing up in other places, but it was a very small portion of my childhood, and for the most part, I was born and raised in Florida.
I always had a sort of… it’’s hard to even call it a love-hate relationship with Florida. But things were always different and strange and complicated for me. A lot of people around me loved Florida for either reasons I didn’t agree with, which might sound weird, or they didn’t love Florida, and they hated it, and they wanted to leave, and I could never understand either of those. And then I realized I was trans, I started coming out, my time sort of came, and I started to realize this state is increasingly getting worse and worse. I don’t like this idea that I’m gonna be forced to leave, but I think I need to leave so that I can feel at least a little bit safer, a little bit more comfortable with myself, not worrying as much about things.
So I eventually left. It was not under the best terms, it was not the way that I wanted to leave. And, the first year that I arrived at the new place, as you mentioned, I moved up to New England, Vermont specifically. It’s been a hell of a ride. I’ve been very happy up here, but it’s been tough getting used to things. That first year, there was a lot of change, a lot of growth, whether I wanted it or not, and I sort of had the idea for this game. I wrote a lot of things down, I wanted to try to start working on it. I started to work on it that year, but I just was not in a good position for it.
Tilly: Understandable, yeah.
V: Yeah, so it got shelved for a little while, and then this year, I made my first game, which is Cold Call, which is a visual novel. It’s something really short compared to When Summer is Over. I did all the art, it’s not, like, pixel art. I did everything mostly black and white and stuff, and I made this thing, and I put it out into the world, and I was like, wow, I finally did the thing I’ve wanted to for my whole life! And I was like, okay, I’m gonna take a break. Then a friend told me about a game jam going on. And for folks who may not know what that is, basically the idea is, a community or a group of people set up a little thing where you have a time limit, and sometimes you might have something like a theme or, like, structure. And you basically go out and you develop a game in this time limit, and then you release it, and then a bunch of people play it, and they rate it, and they judge it. Some game jams will have ratings where they try to say, like, oh, this game got first place, this game got second place. Some of them will just be for the glory of making games and sharing it around.
And the theme, it was for an RPG Maker horror game jam, and the theme was “House of Remembrance.” And I read the description for the theme, and I was like, this is exactly When Summer is Over. I have to do this. So I kind of just dove in, and I made it. And, I surprised myself, because I made the game… I already joined the jam late, and I made the game in, like, about 25 days?
Tilly: Wow.
V: From the ground up, I pretty much didn’t use any of the assets that I had previously made besides just references and concept art stuff. And so I made it, and then I put some finishing touches on it, and it broke me in a lot of ways. But yeah, I put it out in the world, and then all of a sudden, a bunch of people started playing it and reacting to it in ways that I did not expect. Now I’m here.
Tilly: Yeah, I think it was this really genius way of putting the audience in your shoes, because a game is so much more active than reading or even watching something, right? The player is moving and causing things to happen, and so it’s more like those experiences are happening to them. And I think that’s a really brilliant way to get cis people, especially, to maybe understand a little better some of what we go through. Was that part of the hope with making it, or was it more just about getting out all of these thoughts and feelings that you were working through?
V: First and foremost, when I make something, I genuinely care more about art than anything. And to me, art is a conversation between two minds? And so it’s very possible that subconsciously I did have these ideas, because when I work, I never know all of what I’m feeling. I can get so lost in what I’m doing. And I sort of just make it, I get to the end of this tunnel, I share it with people, and then people say, “wow, that was really interesting, I got this out of it.”
I never intended for someone to get that out of it, but I really like that you saw it in your own way. So, to me, it was always just being honest about my own experiences, my thoughts and feelings, and hoping that in whatever way that that could reach people, if it reached cis people who wanted to try to understand more, or who could learn, they could try to understand more. Or maybe some of them, maybe it even changed some of their minds. That would be amazing. That wasn’t the initial goal by any means, but that would definitely not shy away from that.
Tilly: Yeah, I think all art is really like that. Like, we put so much of ourselves into it. Susan and I here, we write scripts, comics, movies, TV, and it’s always the same way. You never know how someone’s gonna interpret your art once you put it out in the world. It’s gonna change. Every single person will view it differently, because they all bring their own baggage and experiences and feelings to it. And so, I think that’s one of the most beautiful things about art, is that you never know what somebody else is gonna get out of it. And that’s kinda cool.
V: Yeah, I think it’s beautiful, honestly. That’s one of my favorite things about art.
Tilly: I wanted to ask you, Susan, because you played through it as well.
Susan: I did.
Tilly: As a cis person.
Susan: Yes.
Tilly: What was it like for you to play through something that was so, like, deeply trans?
Susan: I thought the plants were a great metaphor, kind of. Because, like, I feel like you’re a plant nerd.
V: What? Me? No…[laughs] Just a little bit.
Susan: So there’s, like, oh, these plants, and I love the plants, and then later, like, the poisonous sort of plants are in the house and everywhere, and it adds an interesting thing about the mixed feelings about loving and hating and all together. I thought that was cool.
Tilly: But did you feel the transness of it, the bits that sort of relate to, like, dysphoria and things? Like, how did that feel for you?
Susan: Yeah. Definitely, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was clear to me, but I’m married to you.
Tilly: You are.
V: Actually, I think one of my favorite things about it, is that some of the cis people I know, some of my friends, who are very supportive, they may not understand as much about things, but they do understand the state of the world, this country and some of the sad things going on, and they’re very supportive.
It was really interesting to see how they could relate to those trans struggles, and in their own ways, the things that they go through. You know, being uncomfortable looking in a mirror, it tends to be something trans people talk a lot about, but it’s something that anyone can experience, and having issues with family, or feeling unsafe somewhere, or not feeling comfortable, no matter what clothes you wear. Like, you know, these are all first and foremost, as I know them, trans issues. But a lot of people experience them in different ways that aren’t trans. I think to relate on that level, to realize, like, oh, yeah, we do go through similar things, you know? We’re all human. It’s really nice to see that.
Tilly: Yeah, like, cis people may not know what it’s like to not feel like you are the gender that the whole world has told you that you are, but there’s so many things… because we’re all just humans, you know, struggling through this world. And there’s so many things that I think cis people can relate to. You may not know exactly what it is like to have gender dysphoria, but you know what it’s like to have expectations laid on you by society or your family about who you’re supposed to be, and feeling like that’s not you.
I think that’s one of the most beautiful things about making art like this, is that it helps the whole world understand better, and that’s really cool.
Susan: I guess, yeah, also, parental garbage. I mean, we both have a lot of experience with that.
Tilly: We do!
V: That was something that struck the chord with a lot of people, yes.
Susan: Yeah, because my mother, growing up, was very unpredictable. So everything was trying to figure out what her mood was and when she was going to explode, and there was no real way to always be able to figure that out. And not being able to have an opinion about anything because it was just gonna be turned against you, or… conditional love, and all of those things. Which I definitely grew up with.
Tilly: I wanted to ask, was there a reason that you chose to go with the older 8-bit style of Game Boy-type graphics?
V: I’ve always really liked surrealism as an art movement. I’ve also been weirdly attracted to absurdism and certain philosophical ideals and things, and how they translate to art. And one of my favorite things, obviously, is how those art movements might translate to things like video games.
Tilly: Sure.
V: I wanted to pick something limited because I wanted it to feel nostalgic for a lot of people, even people who may not have played Game Boy games back in the day. I actually did get the chance to play a few Game Boy games on an old-school dot matrix Game Boy. There’s just something about the older, more limited styles that tend to breed this nostalgic feeling, for bad or good.
I wanted to do that because the whole idea of this game is looking back on this hazy memory, and this was another reason I really wanted to make this game relatively soon after I moved. Which was February of 2024. So I wanted to make it before I forgot. It’s hard to imagine myself forgetting, but I found the more and more I live in life, the more I forget things that I later am surprised that I forgot about them. I wanted to do it while they were still relatively fresh. And to me, this idea that it had to be this memory. And the best way to do that was something limited.
The other thing about limited art, colors and palettes… my previous game was mostly black and white. I’m still working on my art style and my art, and I find it much easier to work in a limited color palette. Which is very interesting, because I’ve had other artists tell me, like, “I don’t understand how you do it, my brain breaks when I look at it,” and to me, it makes much more sense, I feel less held down by the art I’m making, when I specifically choose a limited amount of colors.
Tilly: Yeah, I thought it was an excellent choice for the game, not just because of the nostalgic reason that you mentioned, but I feel like those older-style graphics, 8-bit style, they’re not trying to be realistic, like our present-day Xbox and PlayStation games.
I think that they cause us to use our imaginations more. We’re filling in the blanks that the graphics don’t give us. And in a game like this, that is so intimate and personal. And it’s a horror game. To me, that made it even spookier, because I’m seeing your representation of the tree, but my mind is filling in the rest of what that tree looks like, and what’s going on, and what’s happening on the ground at the base of that tree. And your graphics were great, but then my mind is like, oh, but I bet… it’s filling in all these tiny little details that the graphics don’t have, and so, to me, that made it even more of a personal experience.
V: Yeah, That’s actually really interesting. I never thought about it, but I do think that’s one of my favorite things about games like this. I played a lot before making this game. And I like reading, but I have a hard time with novels and books, though. But if you put me into a game, and you give me a ton of stuff to read, I’m all about it. I’m gonna read as much as I can. And I always loved games that gave you just enough art to sort of form the basis of the image, but then the rest of it is sort of obscured, and you have to think about it. I agree, one of my favorite things about horror is when you don’t fully understand the horrors that you’re experiencing?
Tilly: Yes, exactly.
V: There’s a mystery behind it.
Tilly: Yep.
V: So, definitely, that makes a lot of sense.
Tilly: Yeah, it’s like in the, like, original Alien movies, you know, where you never get a really good look at that alien and so your mind is filling in what it must look like, what it must be like, and that makes it even scarier, because everything we’re imagining… they couldn’t make anything that freaky on screen, you know? Our imaginations run wild with them.
Susan: I think the art style, like, gives it a little bit of a childlike quality, which very much plays into how we deal with our parents. Like, we never stop being treated like the child we were versus who we are now. We might as well live on Mars. My parents just can’t fathom the people we are. Like, it’s just beyond their understanding. But it feels very much like when you’re suddenly faced with things from your childhood, or interactions with parents, like, it puts you back in that place.
V: I very much tried to do that. So to hear that people did feel that way is a really nice feeling. Making this game was very hard. There were times I was very uncomfortable as I was writing things, and I thought, should I change something? Should I change this? But, I really wanted it to be raw, and the only way I could really elicit and put people in those feelings was to just, you know, be as transparent as possible is a good way to say it.
Tilly: Sure.
V: Yeah, within the confines of this type of game, of course. There were things that I couldn’t do that I wish I could have done. But with the time limit, and with the idea of just wanting to finally make this thing that I’ve been thinking about for a year, I definitely did everything I could to try to give a sense of, one, that powerlessness that you feel when you’re a child, and even if you’re an adult, if you interact with a parent that still doesn’t acknowledge who you are or accept who you are, which, for a time, my mother was like that when I was older. And it just puts you right back there. The yelling and screaming, or the- there’s no sense of identity, or this idea that you can’t choose for yourself. You can’t make your own decisions, you can’t be your own person, you have to be this person that they know you are, or they say they know you are, or whatever.
Tilly: Was it hard, then, to sort of relive all of the things that you were talking about? Or did you get a catharsis from it? Or was it just mostly, “hey, I’m reliving my trauma, this sucks.”
V: This is a great question, because one of the reasons I wanted to make this game was this idea of catharsis. And then once I finished it and put it out into the world, and saw all these people reacting to it, and playing it, and streaming it, and making videos, and making comments… and I’d watch the videos, and sometimes I’d sit in on some streams and I’d realize, this isn’t really doing anything! So, I do think it was, in a way, a type of catharsis, but it’s something that didn’t feel cathartic, if that makes sense? It was something I needed to do and I’m glad I did it, and I don’t regret doing it. But a lot of it has been reliving, in an unpleasant way, those things, which might be a little bit complicated. I don’t think that’s a horrible thing. But I wouldn’t want to get lost in that.
Tilly: Sure.
V: I think I got a little bit depressed near the end when I finished it, and put it out into the world, but lately I think I’ve been doing a little bit better.
Tilly: That’s good. Yeah, it can be so tough when we’re getting so personal. We’ve written scripts or whatever where we pull bits from our lives or from our past, and we’re sort of reliving those emotions, and sometimes it can help you process them, and sometimes it’s just like, “I’m just going through it all again.” And, yeah, it can be really tough.
I have to tell you that the movie theater level kind of ruined me, in a good way. It was so good at capturing the actual feeling of what it depicts. I’m not gonna spoil it, but, I wanted to ask how you approached the horrors that we experience in this real world, and translating them into the fictional horror of your game. Were you worried they would come across the way you hoped? Because you put these artistic liberties on them, which is great, but that’s what you have to do. But were you worried about how people would interpret those?
V: I actually wouldn’t necessarily call it an artistic liberty.
Tilly: Okay.
V: I know that might sound a little bit strange, but to me, the way that we experience the world, I’ve been in some weird situations, and sometimes it feels like the offenders in those situations don’t feel like humans. And maybe that’s what I wanted to portray. So, in that way, I wouldn’t use that term, but that doesn’t make it incorrect, and now I’m being a little bit nitpicky.
Tilly: It’s your game, nitpick all you want!
V: Still, I don’t want to be too much. Actually, just to clarify, and not to spoiler anything, I just want to make sure I 100% understand… you’re referring to the bathroom segment, correct?
Tilly: Yes.
V: Okay, and I won’t say more than that. What happened in that segment is not something I have experienced directly. Which I’m grateful for, but it is something that I was constantly terrified of, living in the state that I was.
Tilly: Sure.
V: And I knew people who experienced it, and I read stories about people who experienced it. And I actually remember, a couple of my friends were playing the game and they had this reaction to it during that sequence, that they were laughing. I realized that they were laughing because it’s so ridiculous that this is actually happening in the real world, these kinds of things.
It was kind of a weird catharsis, in a way, to be able to have someone there to laugh with me. Like just how insane and ridiculous that these things are happening and so, to me, that’s what they are. It’s one of the most insane things that could happen. So, I wanted to portray it that way, as just this senseless, nonsensical, like… what even is this thing?
Tilly: Which you did very well.
V: Thank you. When I was writing, the dialogue was probably the hardest part for that sequence. What’s difficult for me is that I know some people and some artists who are very good at obscuring and translating things into metaphor and poetry and this beautiful art, where it doesn’t come out and say what this thing is, but it is able to portray it. I don’t think I’m really that good at that kind of thing, and I also realized in the moment as I was writing it, that I don’t want to obscure it and risk it sounding like anything else other than what it is.
So to me, there was a moment of… this is something that’s really important to me. And actually, funny that you mentioned the bathroom scene, that was not originally going to be in the game, in any shape or form. It was actually near the last week as I was developing the game, that I had the idea for that scene. And I realized, with everything going on and the stories I was reading about the ridiculous things happening, what this game is and what it represented, it was a very necessary thing to put in.
Tilly: Yeah.
V: So when I was writing the dialogue, I actually became less worried that people wouldn’t be able to pick up on what it was. I became more worried that people might think it came off as… how do I describe it? Preachy? But then I kind of realized if people think that, then they are not the ones who know what’s going on, and maybe they need to see something like this and think a little bit more about what’s going on, because it is.
Tilly: Absolutely. I think there’s this danger sometimes when we’re making very trans art, where if you don’t explicitly say sometimes exactly what’s happening, so many people are going to miss it.
V: Yeah, absolutely.
Tilly: When we made our short film, there’s a line in there from one of the characters that says the lead character’s mother was transphobic. And that word is said, and we had this big discussion with our assistant director and our producer over… should that line stay in there? Is it too blatant? Is it saying, “look, everybody, what’s going on?”
But then, without it… right? That was the only thing that was 100% confirming, right, that this was a trans story. The rest is there. They’re talking about this trans woman, and her father refers to her as a boy as a child, but it’s like… people are going to miss it, and we need to be sure that it is said and seen and heard and understood. Because so many times, even in work that we’ve done, we’ve had it stripped out, where it can be nothing more than metaphor. Executives get scared, or what have you, and they keep pulling it back, and then people miss it.
So many people that need to see that, to know that they’re being represented on screen, or in a game, or wherever, or they’re going to miss it. And so I like that not only did you make it very clear, but there’s even a spot somewhere in the game where the character talks about her transition. And I love that it was just right there, because it’s a normal thing that some people do, right? And it’s a thing we can talk about.
V: I’ll get this thought out, just because I’m bad at holding onto my thoughts. I’m really glad you brought that up, because when I was initially developing the game and writing the dialogue, there was no mention of the word “transition.” It was, like you said, sort of obscured, and sort of metaphorical. And I looked at it from the top, and I realized, “I can hand this to a trans person.” And I handed it to many of my trans friends, and they read it, and they were like, that was so deep, that was so powerful, I really felt that. But then the more I thought about it, I realized, like, I think this is gonna go over a lot of cis people’s heads.
Tilly: Yep.
V: And I realized something, you mentioned Alien earlier. I tried to do a little bit of digging when I heard about this a while ago, and I think it might be true, I never actually confirmed it. You might know, you might have more information, but I believe in the second movie, Aliens… there’s a very blink-and-you-miss-it reference to one of the previous characters in Alien that is trans in the movie?
Tilly: Yes! There is.
V: I remember finding that out, and I loved Alien and Aliens. I loved both of them for two very different reasons, like Aliens are obviously not much of a horror
Tilly: They’re very different movies.
V: It’s more of a sci-fi action, but I love sci-fi action, and Alien is just such a great horror movie.
Tilly: Right.
V: And when I found out that there was that kind of blink-and-you-miss representation… I found out about that when I was early on in my transition, and there was something about it that was very comforting to me at the time. But as I got more and more into my transition, I kind of started to get a little bit upset. And I realized, you know, there’s plenty of that kind of stuff out there, and I think we need more blatant representation.
Tilly: Yeah.
V: That word that you use, blatant, and the whole execs problem, I kind of realized making this game I don’t think being blatant about things is that much of a problem, and I think we should actually not shy away from doing it more. I think maybe when it comes to art, there are times it could be very helpful to others. And to ourselves, especially in these times that we’re dealing with.
So, I deliberately, as I was starting to actually make the story, put things together, work on the art, touch up the dialogue, I started to deliberately make it so that there were many things that made it very obvious that she was trans. And at first, I always get this little fear in me about, like, oh, is someone gonna see it, and someone’s gonna misgender my character and be mean to her, or whatever. And I was like, you know what? No. I wanna be true to it. If someone’s gonna be that mean, that’s their own problem, that’s not on me. This is about portraying this in art, and that’s what I wanted to do. And, I’m very happy I actually went that route, because I wanted to try to be more poetic in obscuring everything at first, but I realized it just wasn’t right for this story.
Tilly: There are so many times when we aren’t allowed to be blatant. Like, when you’re making an indie game and you’re controlling everything, that’s the time when we can, right? Because we have been told on projects, we can’t say the word “trans,” that’s a bad word. We’re like, “No, that’s just what we’re called.” It’s not a bad word. We can and we should say it.
And so, I think especially in these times that we’re living in, when so many times we only can get our stories told through publishers, or past executives, where it has to be allegorical. On those times when it doesn’t have to be, when we can actually say it, we need to. Because there’s not enough of that, and we need to be sure that it is obvious representation for the people who need to see that, “No, you can be the lead character in a really cool video game. You can be the lead character in a TV show, or a movie, or a comic. You belong. We belong.” You know, we’re just human beings, and we can be those people, too. So, I love that you did that. It was a wonderfully bold choice, and we needed it really bad.
V: Yeah, absolutely, that whole thing about indie- indie art specifically, that gets the chance to do the things that the big exec arts don’t. I think subconsciously, something inside me knew that. And that’s one of the reasons I’ve always loved indie art, experiencing it and making it, because it’s not held back by, “oh, well, we need to be prim and proper, and we can’t use this word,” or whatever else. It’s like, it’s a raw experience from the heart.
Tilly: You talked a little bit about this before, but I just wanted to ask, have you heard from more people who’ve played it? What has the response been like? And have you noticed any differences between trans people and cis people who have played it in their responses or the things that they’ve thought or said about it?
V: Yeah, I have seen a lot of people play it, and see it, and one particular thing that comes to mind is that trans people, or as sometimes I like to call some people, “trans-adjacent” people… I have a couple of cis friends that have trans partners, they’re very supportive, they’re very deep in this stuff. They work on these things with us, they’re the kind of people and support that we really need at this time. Trans and trans-adjacent people can tell right away that it’s a very personal, raw story. They can tell that it’s something from the heart, and these kinds of people will often be the ones writing comments, like, “if an ounce of this is true and it happened to you, I’m so sorry for what you went through.”
And I’ve noticed that cis people, some of the cis people who’ve played it, have… they’re not quite as quick on the uptake about it. So some of them don’t realize right away. They can appreciate it, they can realize the visceral, raw, real story, but they don’t realize how analogous to real-life situations, it might be.
There was one particular streamer who played it, and then messaged me afterward about it. I think he saw a comment about how I had mentioned that I was originally from Florida, and he sort of made the eye-squinting gif reaction kind of thing. He messaged me, and it was like, “so, did any of that stuff…” I don’t remember all the details, but paraphrasing, “did any of this stuff actually happen to you, or is it…” And I’m like, I will be real with you, it is almost a one-to-one analog telling of things that I’ve been through.
There are plenty of things in there that I didn’t go through, and plenty of things that I exaggerated, plenty of things that I know other people went through that I discussed with them, but a lot of it is very personal. And he was like, “wow, I feel so bad for all the jokes I made while I played it! Sorry.” And I told him, please don’t be sorry, because to me, humor is one of the ways that we cope with things. And that’s incredibly important to me for people to be able to make jokes and laugh about things. I would never want to silence something like that, even if they made a really dumb joke that I didn’t like. So, that has been an interesting reaction.
Overall, you know, comments-wise, from what I’ve seen from the comments and the people who have played it, they’ve been so surprising that people were like, “it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful art, it’s a beautiful piece of this visceral story, it’s so personal.” Let me see if I can find this comment real quick… it said, “yes, I love this!” This person commented on the game on the itch.io page. “It feels like a direct glimpse into someone else’s mind. Deeply uncomfortable inner debates about identity and what to let go of made real, and then brutal recounts of abuse.” So, I’m really grateful that people have really seen and felt what it is, what I meant for it to be.
Tilly: Yeah.
V: And I’ve been surprised by some of the ways that people reacted, some people pointing out things that I didn’t notice or didn’t think of at the time when I was developing it. Almost everyone I’ve seen who’s made a comment or posted about it or talked about it had a positive thing to say about it, usually a very positive, personal, thing to say about it.
Tilly: That’s amazing, and well deserved. So, what is next for you? Do you have, like, a new project that you want to tease or talk about or anything?
V: I am… I’m working on a lot in my personal life, in my work life, because I make these games and projects for free, and it was very important to me that they are completely free, I care very much about the accessibility of art. Unfortunately, I have a day job that I have to go to.
Tilly: We still need money to live.
V: Yeah, exactly. There have been some stressful, difficult situations I’m trying to work out. I’m trying to see if I can get to a better place where I can be more comfortable about things and work on things. But even now that I’m done, and I’ve been taking time to rest, the ideas are still just assaulting my brain.
Tilly: Yeah, that’s how they are.
V: I very much have plans to work on more things. I will say that in the future, there will be a sequel to this game, and it’s going to be something that’s going to be very different and important. And I can hint that the girl has finally chosen a name for herself, so we’ll actually have a name for her in that game.
But, in the meantime, I’m planning on working on a few more, I want to say, smaller projects. They may be larger than When Summer is Over, but still smaller than for what my goals are for the sequel. And it’s funny you ask, because a couple of friends of mine pointed out now I can try to make something cute, a palate cleanser, something like that. I was like, yeah! But as I thought about it more, I’m afraid deeply personal and dark is all I know, so all the next ideas I have are for more things that will revolve around that kind of stuff.
At the moment, I’m mostly trying to just rest and recover a bit, because this game took a lot out of me. But once I find my bearings again, I’ll be working on a couple of smaller projects. I wanted to make another visual novel type game, similar to what Cold Call is, with a bit more interactivity to it, some point-and-click aspects, and some branching, narrative story lines. That game will particularly be pertaining to women’s issues with stalking and some other things, which I want to try to portray carefully. I am familiar with some of those issues, and I know that they can be very frightening to deal with.
The other game I wanted to make will be another similar game, like When Summer is Over, another RPG Maker game where I want to actually explore some more RPG map aspects. I want to make it more gameplay heavy, I want to have some more puzzles and some combat sequences and things to kind of prepare. I can’t say too much about those yet. I have overall ideas for the storyline and stuff, but, you know, things change as you write and work on them. But, yeah, I will definitely be working on more projects.
Tilly: Excellent. Please keep me informed, I would love to see them. And don’t feel bad that personal dark horror games feel like your wheelhouse. We all have our wheelhouse, and the thing that we feel best writing, and that’s where our creativity lies, and where we want to work. So, it’s cool that you have found what that is for you. Don’t let anybody pressure you to make a cutesy game if you don’t want to.
V: I really appreciate it. I do like that some of the people pointed out how cute the art in When Summer is Over is with the sprites and stuff. I do like the overworld when you’re moving around, and the little old-school, kind of almost 8-bit style sprites.
And I actually did feel bad at first, but I’m really glad you said that, because the more I’ve thought about it, the more I’ve realized there are so many different kinds of games I like. And I kind of had this hard thing in my brain for a while that told me, like, if I like something, that means I have to also want to try to make things like that. And I kind of just realized that’s not how it works. Within the last two games that I’ve developed, I have found my wheelhouse, and I’m happy with that. And that doesn’t mean that I can’t also continue to like and enjoy the other kinds of games that I do like, that are more entertainment, or silly, or cute, or whatever. So, yeah, absolutely.
Tilly: Well, thank you so much for being here, and for making When Summer is Over, and turning something that was so personal into this, like, amazing piece of art that speaks so well to trans people.
V: Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate the time, and I really appreciate talking about it.
Tilly: Of course. And to the folks listening, you can play When Summer is Over at the link in the show notes, but please do read and heed its content warnings. It is a horror game, but it’s also a really beautiful piece of art that you should experience if you can.
Tilly Bridges, end transmission.
tillysbridges@gmail.com
Transcribed by Kate Rascali – summerknights.bsky.social